Family Commands

God’s Commands For the Family

 

Josiahs Scott, Josiahs@trueconnection.org, www.TrueConnection.org

1/9/2004; 10/21/07; 7/10/08; 10/27/08; 1/27/10; (10/10/11); 3/2/12; 6/3/13; 3/10/17-3/14/17

 

Part of a 3-Part Series: (1) “Family Commands”; (2) “Submission”; (3) “Biblical Bowing

 

>> TODO / Additions!

 

Complete Table of Contents

Introduction. 1

Husbands and Wives. 1

The Profound Mystery of Marriage. 1

Pastor 2

Deacons. 2

The Courageous Wife, Suffering Under a Lost Husband. 2

Children. 3

Children in General 3

Lots of Children Are a Blessing. 3

Children – From Reproach to Reward. 4

Also Consider The Blessing of Celibacy. 4

Labor & Delivery Verses – Verses for Women to be Saved Through Labor 4

Punishment of Children. 6

Coming of Age / Bar Mitzvah. 7

Requirements for Boys to Become Men. 7

Autonomous Responsibility & Authority. 8

Jesus Observed Bar Mitzvah. 8

Jesus and His Mother 8

Solomon and His Mother 8

Grown Sons Had a Choice. 8

Extended Obedience to Parents. 8

Abortion is Murder. 10

Abortion Linked With Idolatry. 10

 

Introduction

This Bible study is the main resource that I use for couples who need marriage help, and it goes well with the "Submission" Bible Study in exhorting and helping couples fight for Biblical families.   [Premarital couples: See Official Premarital Bible Study (below) for powerful Truth in pursuing purity]. When you add the Divorce and Remarriage teaching to this, it becomes even more helpful in propelling you to fight for your first marriage because God Himself defends it, makes it permanent for life no matter what, and shows that remarriage is never an option apart from death.

 

Husbands and Wives

 

The Profound Mystery of Marriage

Eph_5:22-33 EMTV  Wives, subject yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord,  23  because the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.  24  But just as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives be to their own husbands in everything.  25  Husbands, love your own wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,  26  in order that He might sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing of water by the word,  27  that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and blameless.  28  So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he that loves his own wife loves himself.  29  For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as also the Lord does the church.  30  For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.  31  "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."  32  This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and to the church.  33  Nevertheless you also individually, let each one love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respect her husband.

Eph_6:1-4 EMTV  Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.  2  "Honor your father and mother," which is the first commandment with a promise:  3  "that it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."  4  And fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and admonition of the Lord… 12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual forces of evil in the heavenlies.

 

Col_3:16-21 WEB  Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly; in all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your heart to the Lord.  17  Whatever you do, in word or in deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father, through him.  18  Wives, be in subjection to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.  19  Husbands, love your wives, and don't be bitter against them.  20  Children, obey your parents in all things, for this pleases the Lord.  21  Fathers, don't provoke your children, so that they won't be discouraged.

 

Tit_2:4-5 EMTV  so that they may urge the young women to be lovers of their husbands, lovers of their children,  5  temperate, pure, homemakers, good, submitting to their own husbands, lest the word of God be blasphemed.

 

Pastor

1Ti_3:4-5 EMTV  one ruling his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence;  5  (for if one does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);

 

Deacons

1Ti_3:11-12 EMTV  Likewise their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.  12  Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children well, and their own houses.

 

The Courageous Wife, Suffering Under a Lost Husband

1Pe_3:1-7 EMTV  Wives, likewise, subject yourselves to your own husbands, so that even if some are disobedient to the word, that by the conduct of their wives, without a word, they shall be gained for Christ,  2  when they observe your chaste conduct with fear.  3  Of whom let it not be the outward adorning of braiding of hair, and wearing of gold, or of putting on of fine clothes,  4  rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible attitude of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious before God.  5  For thus formerly, the holy women who hoped on God also adorned themselves, subjecting themselves to their own husbands,  6  as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, of whom you became children, when you do good and are not afraid of any terror.  7  Husbands, likewise, live together according to knowledge as with a weaker vessel, with the wife, showing her honor as also a fellow heir of the grace of life, in order that your prayers may not be hindered.

 

Main Contents: Intro | Husbands and Wives | Children

 

Is A Husband’s Authority Ever overruled Over His Wife?

5/13/17

 

1Sa_25: Nabal, Abigale, and David

King Artaxis, Esther, and Mordichi

It is better to obey God than man -- but only if it is actually GOD who gave the command!

 

Children

These are my shorthand, personal notes of Bible verses for Children

 

Children in General

Other dates; 4/10/17

 

Exo_20:12 WEB  Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which Yahweh your God gives you.

 

Lev 19:3 WEB  " 'Each one of you shall respect his mother and his father. You shall keep my Sabbaths. I am Yahweh your God.

Lev 19:3 LB  Let everyone of you reverence his father and his mother; and you shall keep My Sabbaths: I am the Lord your God.

Lev 19:3  ἕκαστος πατέρα αὐτοῦ καὶ μητέρα αὐτοῦ φοβείσθω, καὶ τὰ σάββατά μου φυλάξεσθε· ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεὸς ὑμῶν.

 

Pro_15:5 MKJV  A fool despises his father's instruction, but he who listens to correction is wise.

 

Pro_23:22 WEB  Listen to your father who gave you life, And don't despise your mother when she is old.

 

Pro_30:17 WEB  The eye that mocks at his father, And scorns obedience to his mother: The ravens of the valley shall pick it out, The young eagles shall eat it.

 

Pro_1:8 WEB  My son, listen to your father's instruction, And don't forsake your mother's teaching:

 

Lots of Children Are a Blessing

Other dates; 3/10/17-3/13/17 (especially in light of baby number two pregnancy test);

 

Psa_127:1-5, esp. Psa_127:3-5

Psa_128:1-4, esp. Psa_128:3-4;

Pro_17:6;

 

Gen_1:28 – Original multiplication blessing

Gen_15:4 – Abraham’s desperation for children

Gen_15:5 – Abraham: look at stars

Gen_24:60 – Rebekah: Mother of thousands

Gen_30:1-2 – Rachel: “give me children or I die!”

Gen_33:5 – Jacob's Divinely multiplied Kids

Gen_41:50-52, Gen_48:4 – Joseph's Kids

Gen_50:23 – Joseph's Great Grand kids

Deu_28:4, etc. – fruit of body blessed

Jos_24:3-4, etc. – your father Abraam... multiplied... seed

1Sa_1:1-18, 1Sa_1:19-20, 1Sa_1:27, etc. – Hannah: 1st Son: Samuel

1Sa_2:20, 1Sa_2:21 – Hannah: 3 more sons & 2 daughters

1Ch_28:5 – God Gave David Many Sons

Isa_8:18 – Isiah's Prophetic Children Signs

Job_1:2, Job_42:12-16 – Job's Children

>> See: wk ethic multiplication

 

Children – From Reproach to Reward

Gen_30:22-23 – Rachel's reproach taken away

1Sa_1:5-6, etc. – Hannah (as seen previously)

Luk_1:24-25 – Elizabeth's reproach taken away

 

Also Consider The Blessing of Celibacy

Isa_54:1-4; Mat_19:10-12; 1Co_7:1; 1Co_7:6-9; 1Co_7:25-38;  

>> Sync: Pur | FamCo

 

 

Labor & Delivery Verses – Verses for Women to be Saved Through Labor

My spiritual wife’s favorite verses for having faith and hope when seeking to be courageous in birthing children

 

My wife compiled the following verses (in conjunction of our proclamation) which I compiled, quoted, and enhanced for this Bible Study.

 

My wife said: “the following are 7 of my "favorite" Bible verses for labor (aside from my current Psalms of Degrees obsession).”

(My wife also asked,

AlThu 11:49am

@hd After being able to meditate the other week about my previous labor experiences and some of my go-to Bible verses that ive found myself seeking to hug during that time, I was finally able to jot them down. So, the following are 7 of my "favorite" Bible verses for labor (aside from my current Psalms of Degrees obsession). I was wondering if you could record yourself reading these 7 verses? I was thinking that we could periodically play that recording during labor, especially during the times when my mind might be struggling due to intense pain.

Heb_11:11 – by faith Sarah was given power to throw down seed

Heb_11:11 GRV  [Dative: to/for/in/at/with (by)] πιστει G4102 N-DSF και G2532 CONJ αυτη G846 P-NSF σαρρα G4564 N-NSF στειρα G4723 N-NSFα δυναμιν G1411 N-ASF εις G1519 PREP καταβολην G2602 N-ASF σπερματος G4690 N-GSN ελαβεν G2983 V-2AAI-3S και G2532 CONJ παρα G3844 PREP καιρον G2540 N-ASM ηλικιας G2244 N-GSF [biggness/size/stature/adulthood/maturity -- ἡλικία (St G2244: maturity; WS: adulthood) < ἡλίκος (St G2245: as big ashow much; WS: How great (Col_2:1; Jas_3:5 {AMGL: Gal_6:11}); AMGL: what sized, what, how great, how small) < ἧλιξ (St: a comrade, that is, one of the same age; WS: adult); (Mat_6:34: αρκετον)] ετεκεν G5088 V-2AAI-3Sτσβ επει G1893 CONJ πιστον G4103 A-ASM ηγησατο G2233 V-ADI-3S τον G3588 T-ASM επαγγειλαμενον G1861 V-ADP-ASM

>> Sync: FamC | DAR

 

Mat_24:21-22 – Days cut short for elect’s sake else no one would be saved

Mat_24:21 GRV  εσται G2071 V-FXI-3S γαρ G1063 CONJ τοτε G5119 ADV θλιψις G2347 N-NSF [comp. Joh_16:21] μεγαλη G3173 A-NSF οια G3634 R-NSF [St: “such or what sort of” AMGL: “what sort or manner of, such as” (as WS)] ου G3756 PRT-N γεγονεν G1096 V-2RAI-3S απ G575 PREP αρχης G746 N-GSF κοσμου G2889 N-GSM εως G2193 CONJ του G3588 T-GSM νυν G3568 ADV ουδ G3761 ADV ου G3756 PRT-N μη G3361 PRT-N γενηται G1096 V-2ADS-3S

Mat_24:22 GRV  και G2532 CONJ ει G1487 COND μη G3361 PRT-N εκολοβωθησαν G2856 V-API-3P [pruned/checked/restrained; St: G2849: dwarf/curtail > G2856: (figuratively) abridge: - shorten (~ cut short)] αι G3588 T-NPF ημεραι G2250 N-NPF εκειναι G1565 D-NPF ουκ G3756 PRT-N αν G302 PRT εσωθη G4982 V-API-3S πασα G3956 A-NSF σαρξ G4561 N-NSF δια G1223 PREP δε G1161 CONJ τους G3588 T-APM εκλεκτους G1588 A-APM [ἐκ, ἐξ + λέγω] κολοβωθησονται G2856 V-FPI-3P αι G3588 T-NPF ημεραι G2250 N-NPF εκειναι G1565 D-NPF

[(A) AMGL G2849: prune. 2. to check, restrain. 3. to chastise, correct, punish; (B) WS: κολάζω kolázō; fut. kolásomai, from kólos (n.f.), abridged, shortened. To mutilate, prune, such as trees. Metaphorically, to correct, moderate. In the NT, and generally, to discipline, punish, with the acc. (Act_4:21; 2Pe_2:9, meaning to reserve as subject to punishment). Also from kólos (n.f.): kōlúō (G2967), to cut off, weaken, hinder.

(C) WS: maimed, cut off. To cut off, mutilate (Sept.: 2Sa_4:12). In the NT, used of time in the pass., meaning to cut off, shorten (Mat_24:22; Mar_13:20). -- (D) AMGL: to cut off, amputate (LXX), hence, to curtail, shorten (E) VGNT: properly = “amputate”…“maimed,” “mutilated,”]

 

Mat 22:13 Then the king said to the servants, 'Tie him up hands and feet, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

Mat 22:13  τότε εἶπεν ὁ βασιλεὺς τοῖς διακόνοις· δήσαντες αὐτοῦ πόδας καὶ χεῖρας ἄρατε αὐτὸν καὶ ἐκβάλετε εἰς τὸ σκότος τὸ ἐξώτερον· ἐκεῖ ἔσται ὁ κλαυθμὸς καὶ ὁ βρυγμὸς τῶν ὀδόντων.

Mat 22:13  τοτε TSBειπεν ο βασιλευς Aειπεν τοις διακονοις δησαντες αυτου ποδας και χειρας TSBαρατε TSBαυτον TSBκαι εκβαλετε Aαυτον εις το σκοτος το εξωτερον εκει εσται ο κλαυθμος και ο βρυγμος των οδοντων

Mat 22:14  "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Mat 22:14  πολλοὶ γάρ εἰσι κλητοὶ, ὀλίγοι δὲ ἐκλεκτοί.

 

Rth_4:11 – Blessing to Make You as Those Who Worked Mightiness in Ephrathah

Rth_4:11 WEB  All the people who ·were [KJV: were] in the gate, and the elders, said, ·We are [KJV: We are] witnesses. Yahweh make the woman who has come into your house like Rachel and like Leah, which two built the house of Israel: and ·treat you worthily [“חיל ועשׂה” – do (you?) mightiness]* in Ephrathah, and be famous in Bethlehem:

[* MT: “חיל” “ועשׂה” – KJV: do thou worthily; YLT: do thou virtuously; NKJV: may you prosper; DRB (VUL): that she may be an example of virtue; NIV (Not Inspired Version): May you have standing]

Rth_4:11 LB (LXX)  And all the people who were in the gate said, ·“We are witnesses” [Μάρτυρες]; and the elders [πρεσβύτεροι] said, “The Lord ·make [Δῴη] your wife [τὴν γυναῖκά σου] who goes into your house, as Rachel and as Leah, who both together built the house of Israel, and wrought mightily in Ephratha [ἐποίησανV-AAI-3P δύναμινN-ASF – ABP: did powerfully in Ephratah; CT (LXX): and laid the foundation of power in Ephratha], and there shall be a name to you in Bethlehem.

Rth_4:11  καὶ εἴποσαν πᾶς ὁ λαὸς οἱ ἐν τῇ πύλῃ Μάρτυρες. καὶ οἱ πρεσβύτεροι εἴποσαν Δῴη κύριος τὴν γυναῖκά σου τὴν εἰσπορευομένην εἰς τὸν οἶκόν σου ὡς Ραχηλ καὶ ὡς Λειαν, αἳ ᾠκοδόμησαν ἀμφότεραι τὸν οἶκον Ισραηλ καὶ ἐποίησαν δύναμιν ἐν Εφραθα, καὶ ἔσται ὄνομα ἐν Βαιθλεεμ·

Rth 4:11  καιG2532 CONJ ειποσανV-AAI-3P παςG3956 A-NSM οG3588 T-NSM λαοςG2992 N-NSM οιG3588 T-NPM ενG1722 PREP τηG3588 T-DSF πυληG4439 N-DSF μαρτυρεςG3144 N-NPM καιG2532 CONJ οιG3588 T-NPM πρεσβυτεροιG4245 A-NPMC ειποσανV-AAI-3P δωηG1325 V-AAO-3S κυριοςG2962 N-NSM τηνG3588 T-ASF γυναικαG1135 N-ASF σουG4771 P-GSM τηνG3588 T-ASF εισπορευομενηνG1531 V-PMPAS ειςG1519 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM οικονG3624 N-ASM σουG4771 P-GSM ωςG3739 CONJ ραχηλN-PRI καιG2532 CONJ ωςG3739 CONJ λειανN-PRI αιG3739 R-NPF ωκοδομησανG3618 V-AAI-3P αμφοτεραιA-NPF τονG3588 T-ASM οικονG3624 N-ASM ισραηλG2474 N-PRI καιG2532 CONJ εποιησανG4160 V-AAI-3P δυναμινG1411 N-ASF ενG1722 PREP εφραθαN-PRI καιG2532 CONJ εσταιG1510 V-FMI-3S ονομαG3686 N-NSN ενG1722 PREP βαιθλεεμN-PRI 

 

---------------

 Rth_4:11    ויאמרוH559 said,  כלH3605 And all  העםH5971 the people  אשׁרH834 that  בשׁערH8179 in the gate,  והזקניםH2205 and the elders,  עדיםH5707 witnesses.  יתןH5414 make  יהוהH3068 The LORD  אתH853  האשׁהH802 the woman  הבאהH935 that is come  אלH413 into  ביתךH1004 thine house  כרחלH7354 like Rachel  וכלאהH3812 and like Leah,  אשׁרH834 which  בנוH1129 did build  שׁתיהםH8147 two  אתH853  ביתH1004 the house  ישׂראלH3478 of Israel:  ועשׂהH6213 and do  חילH2428 thou worthily  באפרתהH672 in Ephratah,  וקראH7121 and be famous  שׁםH8034 and be famous  בבית  לחם׃H1035 in Bethlehem: 

Rth_4:11  vayo`m'ru    cal ´    ha,aM    `a$er ´    ba$a,ar    v'haz'kaniyM    ,adiyM    yiTaN    y'hvah    `eT ´    ha`i$ah    haba`ah    `el ´    bayTeCa    c'raHal    uk'la`ah    `a$er    banu    $'TayheM    `eT ´    bayT    yiS'ra`al    va,aSah ´    Hayil    b'`ef'raTah    uk'ra` ´    $aM    b'VayT    laHeM   

---------------

 

 

1Ti_2:15 – They will be Saved in Childbearing if they Continue in...

1Ti_2:15 GRV  σωθησεται* G4982 V-FPI-3S δε G1161 CONJ δια G1223 PREP της G3588 T-GSF τεκνογονιας G5042 N-GSF εαν G1437 COND μεινωσιν G3306 V-AAS-3P εν G1722 PREP πιστει G4102 N-DSF και G2532 CONJ αγαπη G26 N-DSF και G2532 CONJ αγιασμω G38 N-DSM μετα G3326 PREP σωφροσυνης G4997 N-GSF

[* Saved: from Gen_3:16: (A) λύπαςN-APF…(B) στεναγμόνN-ASM… {θλιψεως (Joh_16:21)} (A) λύπαιςN-DPF ]

1Ti_5:14 CAB  Therefore I desire that the younger widows to marry, to bear children [τεκνογονεῖν], to manage the house, to give no opportunity to the adversary because of reproach.

1Ti_5:14  βούλομαι οὖν νεωτέρας γαμεῖν, τεκνογονεῖν, οἰκοδεσποτεῖν, μηδεμίαν ἀφορμὴν διδόναι τῷ ἀντικειμένῳ λοιδορίας χάριν.

 

Gen_3:16 WEB  To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbirth. In pain you will bring forth children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

Gen_3:16 CAB  And to the woman He said, “I will greatly multiply [Πληθύνων πληθυνῶ] your pains [λύπας – AMGL: pain of body or mind, grief, sorrow ; LJS: sad plight or condition] and your groanings [στεναγμόν]; in pain [λύπαις] ·you shall bring forth children [τέξῃ τέκνα], and your submission shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

Gen_3:16  καὶ τῇ γυναικὶ εἶπεν Πληθύνων πληθυνῶ τὰς λύπαςN-APF σου καὶ τὸν στεναγμόνN-ASM σου, ἐν λύπαιςN-DPF τέξῃ G5088 V-FMI-2S τέκνα G5043 N-APN· καὶ πρὸς τὸν ἄνδρα σου ἡ ἀποστροφή σου, καὶ αὐτός σου κυριεύσει.

λυπαςG3077 N-APF σουG4771 P-GS καιG2532 CONJ τονG3588 T-ASM στεναγμονG4726 N-ASM σουG4771 P-GS ενG1722 PREP λυπαιςG3077 N-DPF

 

V: 3/29/19

btw there are alot (maybe even the mass majority) of women that are saved in childbearing that do not do this. Is there a special salvation for those who seek to obey the bible in this way

 

Luk_8:50 – No fear, Only Believe. And Salvation will Happen

Luk_8:50 GRV  ο G3588 T-NSM δε G1161 CONJ ιησους G2424 N-NSM ακουσας G191 V-AAP-NSM απεκριθη G611 V-ADI-3S αυτω G846 P-DSM λεγων G3004 V-PAP-NSMτσβ μη G3361 PRT-N φοβου G5399 V-PNM-2S μονον G3440 ADV πιστευσον G4100 V-AAM-2Sα πιστευε G4100 V-PAM-2Sτσβ και G2532 CONJ σωθησεται G4982 V-FPI-3S

 

See: Mar_5:36

 

Jam_5:15 – Prayer Of Faith Will Raise Up The Exhausted One

Jas_5:15 GRV  και G2532 CONJ η G3588 T-NSF ευχη G2171 N-NSF της G3588 T-GSF πιστεως G4102 N-GSF σωσει G4982 V-FAI-3S τον G3588 T-ASM καμνοντα G2577 V-PAP-ASM και G2532 CONJ εγερει G1453 V-FAI-3S αυτον G846 P-ASM ο G3588 T-NSM κυριος G2962 N-NSM καν G2579 COND-C αμαρτιας G266 N-APF η G5600 V-PXS-3S πεποιηκως G4160 V-RAP-NSM αφεθησεται G863 V-FPI-3S αυτω G846 P-DSM

 

Joh_16:21 – Once a Child is Produced she Doesn't Remember her Sadness Anymore

Joh_16:21 η G3588 T-NSF γυνη G1135 N-NSF οταν G3752 CONJ τικτη G5088 V-PAS-3S λυπην G3077 N-ASF εχει G2192 V-PAI-3S οτι G3754 CONJ ηλθεν G2064 V-2AAI-3S η G3588 T-NSF ωρα G5610 N-NSF αυτης G846 P-GSF οταν G3752 CONJ δε G1161 CONJ γεννηση G1080 V-AAS-3S το G3588 T-ASN παιδιον G3813 N-ASN ουκετι G3765 ADVαβ ουκ G3756 PRT-Nτσ ετι G2089 ADVτσ μνημονευει G3421 V-PAI-3S της G3588 T-GSF θλιψεως G2347 N-GSF [Mat_24:21] δια G1223 PREP την G3588 T-ASF χαραν G5479 N-ASF οτι G3754 CONJ εγεννηθη G1080 V-API-3S ανθρωπος G444 N-NSM εις G1519 PREP τον G3588 T-ASM κοσμον G2889 N-ASM

>>>>> [Mat_24:21]

 

 

 

Heb_11:11 – by faith Sarah was given power to throw down seed

G4723

Mat_24:22 – Days cut short for elects sake else no one would be saved

Mat_22:14

Rth_4:11 – Blessing to make you as those who worked mightiness in Ephrathah

1Ti_2:15 – They will be saved in childbearing if they continue in...

Luk_8:50 – No fear only believe and salvation will happen

Jam_5:15 – Prayer of faith will raise up the exhausted one

Joh_16:21 – Once a child is produced she doesn't remember her sadness anymore

 

Punishment of Children

Other dates (seen previously); 3/14/17; 1/29/18

Pro_3:12 - Scourges every received son

Heb_12:6-12 - Quotes Pro_3:12 LXX (not the Heb. MT)

Pro_13:20 - Companion of fools

Pro_13:24 - No rod = hate son

Pro_19:18 (also: Pro_19:19) – Punish while hope (MT: 'no spare for crying')

Pro_20:11 - LXX: youth restrained (MT: 'children can know')

Pro_22:6 - Not in LXX (MT: ‘train up’)

Pro_22:15 - Folly bound up... rod

Pro_23:13-14 - He will not die

Pro_23:24, etc. - LXX: Righteous father brings up well; LXX & MT: father of wise = joy (Pro_27:11)

Pro_29:15 - LXX: Erring child (MT: Left to himself) = shame

Pro_29:17 - Correct son, he give you good

[Pro_29:19 – servant can’t be child-corrected with words…]

Eph_6:1-4 - Children obey... Father's... no provoking... but discipline

[Pro_20:30 - LXX: bad happens to bad (MT: blueness of wound)]

 

Deu 25:1 WEB  If there be a controversy between men, and they come to judgment, and the judges judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked;

Deu 25:1 “And if there should be a dispute between men, and they should come forward to judgment, and the judges judge, and acquit the righteous, and condemn the wicked;

Deu 25:1  Ἐὰν δὲ γένηται ἀντιλογία ἀνὰ μέσον ἀνθρώπων καὶ προσέλθωσιν εἰς κρίσιν καὶ κρίνωσιν καὶ δικαιώσωσιν τὸν δίκαιον καὶ καταγνῶσιν τοῦ ἀσεβοῦς,

Deu_25:2 WEB  and it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his wickedness, by number.

Deu_25:2 LB  then it shall come to pass, if the unrighteous should be worthy of stripes, you shall lay him down before the judges, and they shall scourge him before them according to his iniquity.

Deu_25:2  καὶ ἔσται ἐὰν ἄξιος ᾖ πληγῶν ὁ ἀσεβῶν, καὶ καθιεῖς αὐτὸν ἔναντι τῶν κριτῶν καὶ μαστιγώσουσιν αὐτὸν ἐναντίον αὐτῶν κατὰ τὴν ἀσέβειαν αὐτοῦ ἀριθμῷ.

Deu 25:3 WEB  Forty stripes he may give him, he shall not exceed; lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then your brother should seem vile to you.

Deu 25:3 And they shall scourge him with forty stripes in number, they shall not inflict more; for if you should scourge him with more stripes beyond these stripes, your brother will be disgraced before you.

Deu 25:3  τεσσαράκοντα μαστιγώσουσιν αὐτόν, οὐ προσθήσουσιν· ἐὰν δὲ προσθῶσιν μαστιγῶσαι αὐτὸν ὑπὲρ ταύτας τὰς πληγὰς πλείους, ἀσχημονήσει ὁ ἀδελφός σου ἐναντίον σου.

 

Coming of AgeBar Mitzvah

Many Other date(s) (seen below); 9/9/19 (Major Reformating/Revission); 10/20/19

 

Quick Summary of Growing Up

 

Bar Mitzvah

Bar Mitzvah is when a male child in Jewish culture comes of age. Although most observe this at 13 today, it seems to have been originally recognized at 12 years old–which is what Jesus, His parents, and monotheistic society observed and recognized in Luk_2:42. (Note the appropriate significance of 12 among Monotheists.)

 

No Bat Mitzvah, Only Transfer or Dismissal

It should be noted that women do not come of age. Women do not have a bar mitzvah, and it is only more recently in history that apostate liberals have invented a shameful bat mitzvah in their degradation of women. Any concept like this is liberal and unfounded in Biblical history. While boys become men, girls are transferred from their fathers to their husbands (See all of Num_30:1-16). Women only become independent when their men are out of the picture (example: death or abandonment).

 

Honoring Parents is Life-Long

It is also important to note that while boys “graduate” into becoming men, from being under authority to becoming authorities, no son or daughter ever graduates from honoring their parents (Eph_6:1-3; Col_3:20).

When you are a child, honoring parents especially includes obeying them, and when you are an adult it includes providing for them / giving them money/value -- as seen in Divorce and Remarriage Repentance Revolution).

>>Scrip /\/\

 

>> Prophetic Dishonor

Mat_10 -- Sword

>>TSK

 

Submit to Husband as unto Lord…

A requirement to obey Lord so you can honor husband… can’t contradict

10/23/21

 

Requirements for Boys to Become Men

·        Appointed time by father (or sometimes their current authority, if adopted for example?) -- Gal_4

·        Not being under tutors or guardians (i.e. no need/dependence upon being under supervision) -- Gal_4
(comp. Jesus stayed in a city by Himself -- Luk_2)

·        Autonomous Responsibility (which is prerequisite for Autonomous Authority) -- seen throughout numerous passages below

·        Put away childish things -- 1Co_13

 

Gal_4:1-2 – the time appointed by the father

Happens to boys, including gentiles

[Also note that ‘a son is like a slave’ in Gal_4:1 and Sir_3:7 (where “Sir” = “Sirach”)]

 

(A) ἐπιτρόπους: Mat_20:3, Luk_8:3; LXX: 2Ma_11:1 (p. 515 NETS); 2Ma_13:2; 2Ma_14:2

 

(B) οἰκονόμους: Rom_2:12-16, Rom_2:25-29, etc.

 

>> Story: when I was seeking to establish my manhood, I asked my dad

>> Story: I have done adult spanking

1Co_13:11 – Grown Men: put away childish things

 

Notice that lots of kids want to be treated like adults but aren’t as zealous for the properly correlating responsibility of adulthood.

 

Child Play = Things of a Child

9/13/19; 10/20/19

 

Child Play is Biblical & Distinct

Zec_8:4 WEB  Thus says Yahweh of Armies: "Old men and old women will again dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, every man with his staff in his hand for very age.

Zec_8:4 Thus says the Lord Almighty: ‘There shall yet dwell old men and old women in the streets of Jerusalem, everyone holding his staff in his hand for age.

Zec_8:4  τάδε λέγει κύριος παντοκράτωρ Ἔτι καθήσονται πρεσβύτεροι καὶ πρεσβύτεραι ἐν ταῖς πλατείαις Ιερουσαλημ, ἕκαστος τὴν ῥάβδον αὐτοῦ ἔχων ἐν τῇ χειρὶ αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ πλήθους ἡμερῶν·

Zec_8:5 WEB  The streets of the city will be full of boys [יְלָדִ֖ים (y'ladiyM) ???] and girls [וִֽילָד֑וֹת (viyladOT) ???] playing [מְשַׂחֲקִ֖ים (m'SaHakiyM)] in its streets."

Zec_8:5 And the broad places of the city shall be filled with boys [παιδαρίων] and girls [κορασίων] playing [παιζόντων] in its streets.’

Zec_8:5  καὶ αἱ πλατεῖαι τῆς πόλεως πλησθήσονται παιδαρίων καὶ κορασίων παιζόντων ἐν ταῖς πλατείαις αὐτῆς.

Zec_8:6 WEB  Thus says Yahweh of Armies: "If it is marvelous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in those days, should it also be marvelous in my eyes?" says Yahweh of Armies.

Zec_8:6 Thus says the Lord Almighty: ‘If it shall be impossible in the sight of the remnant of this people in those days, shall it also be impossible in My sight?’” Says the Lord Almighty.

Zec_8:6  τάδε λέγει κύριος παντοκράτωρ Διότι εἰ ἀδυνατήσει ἐνώπιον τῶν καταλοίπων τοῦ λαοῦ τούτου ἐν ταῖς ἡμέραις ἐκείναις, μὴ καὶ ἐνώπιον ἐμοῦ ἀδυνατήσει; λέγει κύριος παντοκράτωρ.

 

This blessing of (happy) “playing” children in the streets is idealized as a beautiful restoration of redeemed society in Jerusalem.

Notice that there is something distinct between child play and adult activity in society which is being idealized in this passage.

 

Adult Playing Examples

·        “Playing” Instruments

·        Worship/dancing like David (“ומשׂחק”/παίζοντα in 1Ch 15:29 -- same as Zec_8:5 Heb/Gr)

·        This “playing” terminology works in Hebrew Greek and English.

·        Marriage celebration like Isaac

 

Child Play vs Adult Play

·        Healthy child play particularly means creatively practicing things that get you ready for being an adult.

·        Healthy adult play means celebrating good things worthy of praise and happiness.

·        Adults can also “creatively practice things” to gain new skills and such, but this is usually called gym-nize/exercise/train in the Bible.

·        While adults are said to “play” in the Bible

·        There is a required social transition if a Monotheist was to pass from being a Zec_8:5 child to a Zec_8:4 older man or woman.

·        These comparisons are generalizations, but they still effectively help us consider the distinct social realities between children and grown-ups.

 

The Mockery of Childing a Man

·        Law of Moses prescribes it as a shaming punishment for some guilty men (ex. Deu_22)

·        If done to a holy man it deserves death: 2Ki_2:23, etc.

 

 

Autonomous Responsibility & Authority

For the concept (and language) of “Autonomy” See: Rom_2:

 

Num_30:2 – “Of Age” Means you're personally responsible for your own actions, especially in view of God's Law

(See all of Num_30:1-16)

1Co_11:3 – The head / authority of every (grown) man [ἀνδρὸς] is Anointed One (“Christ”) (while the head of woman is still man, even after she is “grown”)

Greek: ἀνδρὸς – this does not include boys [παῖδας], girls [παιδισκῶν], or even women [γυναῖκές], but every MAN [ἀνδρὸς].

Joh_9:20-21 – parents: He is of age... He will speak for himself

 

Jesus Observed Bar Mitzvah

The Jewish Coming of Age

 

Luk_2:40-52

·         Luk_2:7 – Jesus Born

·         Luk_2:22-24 – Jesus dedicated as a child

·        Luk_2:42 – Twelve years old

·        Luk_2:46-47 – Jesus did Bar Mitzvah

·        Luk_2:51 – Voluntary, re-subjection to parents

 

Jesus and His Mother

Mar_3:20-21 – Mother & brothers incited against Jesus

Mar_3:31-34 – Jesus acts contrary to His mother's wishes

 

>> TSK!

>> woman from the crowd

 

Solomon and His Mother

1Ki_2:19 – Solomon honors her

1Ki_2:20-25 – Solomon does not yield his male authority as king to his mother

 

Grown Sons Had a Choice

>> 12 Sons of Jacob: - had a say in leading the decision about their sister - for better or worse: They had a say on whether or not they would do as their father requested for them to go to Egypt

>> prodigal son was free to go make his own decisions

Gen_43:1-5 – Judah made conditions (is this a right example for us? It was bad in: Gen_34:30-31, because later: Gen_49:5-7)

Luk_15:11-13 – The younger brother made a choice…

Luk_15:25-32 – The older brother also had a choice…

 

Extended Obedience to Parents

5/30/16

Esther -- of course this is the case with girls, but she did so even after being married off!

Recobites

Patriarchs: Isaac submitting even unto death!

Ishmael to his mom? (partly)

Jacob to Rebecca

Jesus’ re-subjection

>> Jesus’ re-subjection

 

Adult "Spanking"?

When Boys Fail to Become Men…

When to spank and when not to spank society?

 

Correction ≠ Violence

·        Adult Spanking/Correction/Punishment is not "destroying men's lives" or “violence” by very definition

>> Story: Mentally ill who still need to be spanked

 

Law of Moses – you will chastise him (lit. child)

Ezra & Nehemiah

Proverbs – Slave & Fool punishment

 

Jesus throwing out money changers

Mat_21:12-17; Mar_11:15-19; Luk_19:45-48; Joh_2:13-16

 

Limitation: masters give up threatening (and turning the other cheek in general…)

 

Abortion is Murder

Other dates; 3/10/17-3/13/17 (especially in light of baby number two pregnancy test); 6/6/17

 

Luk_1:23-44; Luk_1:56-58

 

Abortion Linked With Idolatry

2Ki_16:3; 2Ki_23:10; 2Ch_33:6; Eze_16:20-21

Others:

2Ki_17:17; Lev_18:21, Lev_20:2; Deu_12:31, Deu_18:10; Psa_106:37; Psa_106:38; Jer_32:35 – Such murder never even came into God’s mind to do; Eze_16:21, Eze_20:26, Eze_20:31

Where do you stand on the issue of abortion?

3/13/17 (recompiled)

It goes without saying that the Bible opposes murder of every kind, even specifically including abortion.

Abortion is murder. Killing a baby inside of the womb is no less murder than killing one outside, and murderers do not go to Heaven, (1Jo 3:15) unless they repent from being a murderer.

The Bible says that killing a baby inside the womb is a murder worthy of death, therefore, it is a murder worthy of death: Exo 21:22-25; Rom 1:32. Many other times as well, the Bible recognizes that a baby in the womb is alive and even capable of spiritual activity: Lk 1:24, 26, 36, 39-44, 56-57

Of course, I would never be the one to cast a stone to enforce such a just death penalty, lest I also be found to have been a murderer in my heart at one time in my past, (and so condemn myself). [These things are verified in these Scriptures: Mat 5:21-22; 1John 3:15; John 8:7; Luk 9:56]. In fact, I would feel privileged to have a part in helping someone recover from participating in such a horrible experience.

Image Icon Absolutely Proves No murder of Babies

When does a person get a soul? (even more importantly, a Spirit) -- this has been debated for thousands of years, but before we answer this, we do know that man is made in the image of God (and women are hidden within the rib of this image) and based on this God said not to murder!

No matter what you say about the details -- humans have always been commanded not to murder the image of God!

>> Num_5

Deu 22:22 WEB  If a man be found lying with a woman marriedH1166 to [i.e. mastered by] a husband, then they shall both of them die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman: so you shall put away the evil from Israel.

TAR: If a man be found lying with another's wife, both of them shall be put to death; the mail who hath lain with the woman, and the woman. Even if she be with child, they shall not wait till she is delivered, but in the same hour they shall put them to death by strangulation with the napkin, and cast away the evil doer from Israel.

>> Sync: DRRR | FamC > Abortion (Deu 22:22)

>> Greek

>> David killed/aborted those who burned their children - an eye for an eye... showing us that abortion is a crime you deserve to be torturously killed for, in the same way you murder your children

Num_5: -- a God-induced abortion vs. “she will conceive seed”

It is always God prerogative to abort adulteress children, just as it is always God’s prerogative to kill anyone whom He deems unfit to live

>> it goes without saying that there is always redemption for those born of fornication or adultery and as seen in Judges

David’s adulteress child was aborted by God

Praying against Abortion

Num_12:12 WEB  Let her not, I pray, be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he comes out of his mother's womb."

Num_12:12 LB Let her not be like death, as an abortion coming out of his mother's womb, when the disease devours the half of the flesh.”

Num_12:12  μὴ γένηται ὡσεὶ ἴσον θανάτῳ, ὡσεὶ ἔκτρωμα ἐκπορευόμενον ἐκ μήτρας μητρὸς καὶ κατεσθίει τὸ ἥμισυ τῶν σαρκῶν αὐτῆς.

---------------

Abortion

Other date; 11/4/17

Deu_12:31 WEB  You shall not do so to Yahweh your God: for every abomination to Yahweh, which he hates, have they done to their gods; for even their sons and their daughters do they burn in the fire to their gods.

Deu_12:31 LB  You shall not do so to your God; for they have sacrificed to their gods the abominations of the Lord which He hates, for they burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, to sacrifice to their gods.

Deu_12:31  οὐ ποιήσεις οὕτως κυρίῳ τῷ θεῷ σου· τὰ γὰρ βδελύγματα, ἃ κύριος ἐμίσησεν, ἐποίησαν τοῖς θεοῖς αὐτῶν, ὅτι τοὺς υἱοὺς αὐτῶν καὶ τὰς θυγατέρας αὐτῶν κατακαίουσιν ἐν πυρὶ τοῖς θεοῖς αὐτῶν.

Deu_18:9 WEB  When you are come into the land which Yahweh your God gives you, you shall not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.

Deu_18:9 LB  And when you shall have entered into the land which the Lord your God gives you, you shall not learn to do according to the abominations of those nations.

Deu_18:9  Ἐὰν δὲ εἰσέλθῃς εἰς τὴν γῆν, ἣν κύριος ὁ θεός σου δίδωσίν σοι, οὐ μαθήσῃ ποιεῖν κατὰ τὰ βδελύγματα τῶν ἐθνῶν ἐκείνων.

Deu_18:10 WEB  There shall not be found with you anyone who makes his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices sorcery, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer,

Deu_18:10 There shall not be found in you one who purges his son or his daughter with fire, or one who uses divination, or one who deals with omens, or a sorcerer

Deu_18:10  οὐχ εὑρεθήσεται ἐν σοὶ περικαθαίρων τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ ἢ τὴν θυγατέρα αὐτοῦ ἐν πυρί, μαντευόμενος μαντείαν, κληδονιζόμενος καὶ οἰωνιζόμενος, φαρμακός,

>> Sync: WoW | LOG | SPI | SRP (Deu_18:13) | FamC (Deu_18:9-10)

>> TSK (Abortion)

abortion has long been one of the worst abominations of the gentile nations

this is later called the "killing of the innocents"

Deu_27:25 WEB  Cursed be he who takes a bribe to kill an innocent person. All the people shall say, Amen.

Deu_27:25 LB  ’Cursed is the man that shall take a bribe to slay an innocent man.’ And all the people shall say, Amen.’

Deu_27:25  Ἐπικατάρατος ὃς ἂν λάβῃ δῶρα πατάξαι ψυχὴν αἵματος ἀθῴου· καὶ ἐροῦσιν πᾶς ὁ λαός Γένοιτο.

>> Sync: FamC | SPI > Spirit, Soul, body

….

do not abort unplanned pregnancies

we are commanded by example to not destroy life even if it is unplanned and/or unwanted

Lot did not have his daughters pregnancies aborted even though they were conceived through unwilling incest

Juda also let Tamar have his baby

David did not even abort the baby conceived in his adultery, but recognized that God was the only one who could make such a decision...

we need to be spiritual like Mary and faithfully receive strange situations, even if it means preserving the life that is inconveniently born out of wedlock.

---------------

>>> Exo 1 !!!

Abortion

~2009/10/(11); 1/25/13; 4/1/13; 3/28/14; 3/11/15; 9/23/16; 3/13/17 (recompiled)

Abraham “sacrificed” his only son

Gen_42:37 WEB Reuben spoke to his father, saying, "Kill my two sons, if I don't bring him to you. Entrust him to my care, and I will bring him to you again."

Gen_42:37 CAB And Reuben spoke to his father, saying, Kill my two sons if I do not bring him back to you; give him into my hand, and I will bring him back to you.

Gen_42:37  εἶπεν δὲ Ρουβην τῷ πατρὶ αὐτοῦ λέγων Τοὺς δύο υἱούς μου ἀπόκτεινον, ἐὰν μὴ ἀγάγω αὐτὸν πρὸς σέ δὸς αὐτὸν εἰς τὴν χεῖρά μου, κἀγὼ ἀνάξω αὐτὸν πρὸς σέ.

>> TSK?

>>Scrip:

Example of ‘Killing all his house’

Korrah

Hamen

Parents enforce death penalty

---------------

10/1/16; 7/11/17

2Ki_24:3 WEB Surely at the commandment of Yahweh came this on Judah, to remove them out of his sight, for the sins of Manasseh, according to all that he did,

2Ki_24:3 CAB Moreover it was the purpose of the Lord concerning Judah, to remove them from His presence, because of the sins of Manasseh, according to all that he did.

2Ki_24:3  πλὴν ἐπὶ τὸν θυμὸν κυρίου ἦν ἐν τῷ Ιουδα ἀποστῆσαι αὐτὸν ἀπὸ προσώπου αὐτοῦ ἐν ἁμαρτίαις Μανασση κατὰ πάντα, ὅσα ἐποίησεν·

2Ki_24:4 and also for the innocent blood that he shed; for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood: and Yahweh would not pardon.

2Ki_24:4 Moreover he shed innocent blood, and filled Jerusalem with innocent blood, and the Lord would not pardon it.

2Ki_24:4  καί γε αἷμα ἀθῷον ἐξέχεεν καὶ ἔπλησεν τὴν Ιερουσαλημ αἵματος ἀθῴου· καὶ οὐκ ἠθέλησεν κύριος ἱλασθῆναι.

>> context: does this describe child sacrifice

>> TSK!!!

Mat_2:13-23

Jer_19:4, Pro_6:17, Deu_21:1-9

---------------

8/27/15

What is lawful...ro do good or evil, To save life or to destroy life

---------------

>> Jer_7:31

> find other refs to Luke passages

> so-called 'Epistle of Barnabas'?

> Num_5: / other city anialations – only time when it was right to killl babys

Act_7:19

Eze_16:20

Hos_9:13 – compare MT vs. LXX

Egyptian Mandated Abortions

> exodus / exodos Refs?

Wis_11:14 Brenton  For whom they respected with scorn, when he was long before thrown out at the casting forth of the infants, him in the end, when they saw what came to pass, they admired.

Wis_12:3-7 Brenton  For it was thy will to destroy by the hands of our fathers both those old inhabitants of thy holy land,  4  Whom thou hatedst for doing most odious works of witchcrafts, and wicked sacrifices;  5  And also those merciless murderers of children, and devourers of man's flesh, and the feasts of blood,  6  With their priests out of the midst of their idolatrous crew, and the parents, that killed with their own hands souls destitute of help [compare NETS]:  7  That the land, which thou esteemedst above all other, might receive a worthy colony of God's children.

Wis_14:21-28 Brenton [NETS, p 710]  And this was an occasion to deceive the world: for men, serving either calamity or tyranny, did ascribe unto stones and stocks the incommunicable name [פὸ ἀךןיםםחפןם םןלב].  22  Moreover this was not enough for them, that they erred in the knowledge of God; but whereas they lived in the great war of ignorance, those so great plagues called they peace.  23  For whilst they slew their children in sacrifices, or used secret ceremonies, or made revellings of strange rites;  24  They kept neither lives nor marriages any longer undefiled: but either one slew another traitorously, or grieved him by adultery. 24 They kept neither lives nor marriages any longer undefiled: but either one slew another traitorously, or grieved him by adultery.  25  So that there reigned in all men without exception blood, manslaughter, theft, and dissimulation, corruption, unfaithfulness, tumults, perjury,  26  Disquieting of good men, forgetfulness of good turns, defiling of souls, changing of kind, disorder in marriages, adultery, and shameless uncleanness.  27  For the worshipping of idols not to be named is the beginning, the cause, and the end, of all evil.  28  For either they are mad when they be merry, or prophesy lies, or live unjustly, or else lightly forswear themselves.

> this passages is in mvp – get any updates

Wis_18:5 Brenton  And when they had determined to slay the babes of the saints, one child being cast forth, and saved, to reprove them, thou tookest away the multitude of their children, and destroyedst them altogether in a mighty water.

Wis_18:10-13 Brenton  But on the other side there sounded an ill according cry of the enemies, and a lamentable noise was carried abroad for children that were bewailed.  11  The master and the servant were punished after one manner; and like as the king, so suffered the common person.  12  So they all together had innumerable dead with one kind of death; neither were the living sufficient to bury them: for in one moment the noblest offspring of them was destroyed.  13  For whereas they would not believe any thing by reason of the enchantments; upon the destruction of the firstborn, they acknowledged this people to be the sons of God.

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TODO/ Additions

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Mic_1:16 WEB  Shave your heads, and cut off your hair for the children of your delight. Enlarge your baldness like the vulture; for they have gone into captivity from you!

Mic_1:16 LB  Shave your hair, and make yourself bald for your delicate children; increase your widowhood as an eagle; for your people have gone into captivity from you.

Mic_1:16  ξύρησαι καὶ κεῖραι ἐπὶ τὰ τέκνα τὰ τρυφερά σου, ἐμπλάτυνον τὴν χηρείαν σου ὡς ἀετός, ὅτι ᾐχμαλωτεύθησαν ἀπὸ σοῦ.

>> Sync: FamC | Lux | Pur > Ignorant Punishment

>> for more see: Pur > Ignorant Punishment

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“Friends” vs. Real Friends

Other date; 3/19/18

>> don’t be a companion of fools!!!!

Joh15 -- real friends include your authorities

Comp: prodigal son & older bro!

---------------

10/14/17

Deu_8:5 WEB  You shall consider in your heart that as a man chastens his son, so Yahweh your God chastens you.

Deu_8:5 LB  And you shall know in your heart, that as if any man should chasten his son, so the Lord your God will chasten you.

Deu_8:5  καὶ γνώσῃ τῇ καρδίᾳ σου ὅτι ὡς εἴ τις παιδεύσαι ἄνθρωπος τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ, οὕτως κύριος ὁ θεός σου παιδεύσει σε,

Deu_8:6 WEB  You shall keep the commandments of Yahweh your God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.

Deu_8:6 And you shall keep the commands of the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to fear Him.

Deu_8:6  καὶ φυλάξῃ τὰς ἐντολὰς κυρίου τοῦ θεοῦ σου πορεύεσθαι ἐν ταῖς ὁδοῖς αὐτοῦ καὶ φοβεῖσθαι αὐτόν.

>> comp Hebrews 12

---------------

When God does not Rejoice in the life of Children!

5/28/17

>>Scrip:

Prepare slaughter for her children

Sirach: don’t rejoice in hords of evil children

Job: the scorn of children

Mocking Children

2Ki_2:23-25 CAB  And he went up there to Bethel [Already been there: 2Ki_2:2-3; Comp: idols of Jeroboam & Jehu: 2Ki_10:29 (2Ki_23:4); 2Ki_23:15; 2Ki_23:17, 2Ki_23:19; (Hos_10:5)]. And as he was going up by the road, there came up also little children from the city, and mocked him, and said to him, Go up, baldhead [paganism against weakness vs. monotheism’s glory in age Lev_13:40-41], go up.  24  And he turned after them, and saw them, and cursed [κατέπαιζον] them in the name of the Lord. And behold, there came out two bears out of the woods [2Sa_17:8; Pro_17:12, Hos_13:8], and they mauled forty-two children [παῖδας] among them.  25  And he went from there to Mount Carmel, and returned from there to Samaria.

2Ki_2:23-25 Greek  καὶ ἀνέβη ἐκεῖθεν εἰς Βαιθηλ· καὶ ἀναβαίνοντος αὐτοῦ ἐν τῇ ὁδῷ καὶ παιδάρια μικρὰ ἐξῆλθον ἐκ τῆς πόλεως καὶ κατέπαιζον αὐτοῦ καὶ εἶπον αὐτῷ Ἀνάβαινε, φαλακρέ, ἀνάβαινε.  24  καὶ ἐξένευσεν ὀπίσω αὐτῶν καὶ εἶδεν αὐτὰ καὶ κατηράσατο αὐτοῖς ἐν ὀνόματι κυρίου, καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐξῆλθον δύο ἄρκοι ἐκ τοῦ δρυμοῦ καὶ ἀνέρρηξαν ἐξ αὐτῶν τεσσαράκοντα καὶ δύο παῖδας.  25  καὶ ἐπορεύθη ἐκεῖθεν εἰς τὸ ὄρος τὸ Καρμήλιον καὶ ἐκεῖθεν ἐπέστρεψεν εἰς Σαμάρειαν.

>> Sync: FamC | jojB

Rejecting Knowledge

Hos_4:6 CAB  My people are like as if they had no knowledge: because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you, that you shall not minister as priest unto Me: and as you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.

Hos_4:6 Greek  ὡμοιώθη ὁ λαός μου ὡς οὐκ ἔχων γνῶσιν· ὅτι σὺ ἐπίγνωσιν ἀπώσω, κἀγὼ ἀπώσομαι σὲ τοῦ μὴ ἱερατεύειν μοι· καὶ ἐπελάθου νόμον θεοῦ σου, κἀγὼ ἐπιλήσομαι τέκνων σου.

>> Sync: FamC | jojB

>> [excerpt from other BBS’]

Hos_5:7 WEB  They are unfaithful to Yahweh; for they have borne illegitimateH2114 [זרים (Lexical: זוּר) – turned asside / starnge] children. Now ·the new moon [KJV: a month] willH2320 [“חדשׁ”] devour them with their fields [flat-ness?].

Hos_5:7 CAB  For they have forsaken [ἐγκατέλιπον (same as 2Ch_32:31 with Hezekiah)] the Lord; for strange [ἀλλότρια – lit. other] children [τέκνα] have been born [ἐγεννήθησαν] to them: now [νῦν] shall the cankerworm [ἡ ἐρυσίβη – ABP: blight*] devour [καταφάγεται] them and their heritage [κλήρους].

Hos_5:7  ὅτι τὸν κύριον ἐγκατέλιπον, ὅτι τέκνα ἀλλότρια ἐγεννήθησαν αὐτοῖς· νῦν καταφάγεται αὐτοὺς ἡ ἐρυσίβη καὶ τοὺς κλήρους αὐτῶν.

[* “blight” = “a plant disease, especially one caused by fungi such as mildews, rusts, and smuts” (Google / Oxford American College Dictionary?)]

>> See: LUX | Lov | DHG | FamC (partly)

>> See: Pop: dhg -- for all the context!

>> update formatting LUX > DHG

Mic 1:16 WEB  Shave your heads, and cut off your hair for the children of your delight. Enlarge your baldness like the vulture; for they have gone into captivity from you!

Mic 1:16 LB  Shave your hair, and make yourself bald for your delicate children; increase your widowhood as an eagle; for your people have gone into captivity from you.

Mic 1:16  ξύρησαι καὶ κεῖραι ἐπὶ τὰ τέκνα τὰ τρυφερά σου, ἐμπλάτυνον τὴν χηρείαν σου ὡς ἀετός, ὅτι ᾐχμαλωτεύθησαν ἀπὸ σοῦ.

>> Sync: FamC | Lux

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Having “Family Time”

~5/1/17; 5/5/17

Lev_23: -- some "rests" were "meetings" of just the family resting in the house together

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4/11/17

Lev_19:32 WEB  " 'You shall rise up before the gray head, and honor the face of an old man, and you shall fear your God. I am Yahweh.

Lev_19:32 LB  ‘You shall rise up before the gray-headed, and honor the face of the old man, and shall fear your God: I am the Lord your God.

Lev_19:32  ἀπὸ προσώπου πολιοῦ ἐξαναστήσῃ καὶ τιμήσεις πρόσωπον πρεσβυτέρου καὶ φοβηθήσῃ τὸν θεόν σου· ἐγώ εἰμι κύριος ὁ θεὸς ὑμῶν.

>> Sync: FamCo | Sub

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Can Good Parents Have Bad Children?

10/16/14; 10/23/14; 2/11/15; 2/21/17 (recompiled)

Cain

Prodigal son

Samual's sons not following in his ways

Jacob

Can Good Parents Hope to Have Good Children?

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob... Joseph (That's almost where it stopped...)

2Ki 2 -- the prophets seemed to have had many prophetic children! (and maybe this was by polygamy…) -- why is this different than Samuel? Did their comunal values preserve them in Prophecy? Samuel was immersed in a hard-hearted culture...... where even Eli's sons rebelled previously....

MT: Train up a child -- this has not been affirmed yet

Philip's daughters

Timothy

Psa 127:5 -

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7/31/13

Sir_7:20-28 Brenton  Whereas thy servant worketh truly, entreat him not evil. nor the hireling that bestoweth himself wholly for thee.  21  Let thy soul love a good servant [Heb: as yourself], and defraud him not of liberty.  22  Hast thou cattle? have an eye to them: and if they be for thy profit, keep them with thee.  23  Hast thou children? instruct them, and bow down their neck from their youth.  24  Hast thou daughters? have a care of their body, and shew not thyself cheerful toward them.  25  Marry thy daughter, and so shalt thou have performed a weighty matter: but give her to a man of understanding.  26  Hast thou a wife *after thy mind [* κατὰ ψυχήν – not in Heb or Syr!!]? forsake her not [μὴ ἐκβάλῃς αὐτήνdo not throw her out (i.e. Do not divorce her)]: but *give not thyself over [* ἐμπιστεύσῃς σεαυτόν] to a *light woman [* μισουμένῃ].  27  Honour thy father with thy whole heart, and forget not the sorrows of thy mother.  28  Remember that thou wast begotten of them; and how canst thou recompense them the things that they have done for thee?

Sir_3:1-16

(Incl. Honoring father to atone for sins)

Daughters to NOT have a Batmizfa in the Bible

12/31/12

- it is an evil and perverted, modern invention

- the fact that women never had a batmizfa absolutely proves that she is never intependant apart from her man (husband or father) departing from her (by death or abandoning property)

- see previous thoughts on: the head of woman is still man after being grown

- father held his daughter as much as he demanded for as long as he did not give her away

>> add:

Jeptha had to fulfill his commitment to offer up his daughter because he was her absolute authority and there was no one who could lawfully intervene. But Saul could not fulfill his commitment in killing Jonathan, because Saul was not Jonathan’s absolute authority in a paternal sense, but he could only issue that decree as his king, and because of this, there were people who could and did intervene. No one could lawfully step between the authority of Jeptha and his daughter, but people could step between Saul’s orders and his son’s life.

11/30/12

11/23/12

Wis_3:10-13 Brenton  But the ungodly shall be punished according to their own imaginations, which have neglected the righteous, and forsaken the Lord.  11  For whoso despiseth wisdom and nurture, he is miserable, and their hope is vain, their labours unfruitful, and their works unprofitable:  12  Their wives are foolish, and their children wicked:  13  Their offspring is cursed. Wherefore blessed is the barren that is undefiled, which hath not known the sinful bed: she shall have fruit in the visitation of souls.

Children need to be in subjection

Lev_19:32 - Rise before gray head

Rom_13:7 - Give all their dues

Gal_4:1-2 > Luk_17:7-10

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Main Contents: Intro | Husbands and Wives | Children

 

 


 

Main Contents: Intro | Husbands and Wives | Children

 


 

 

 

Family Commands – Additional Considerations and Enduring Questions

10/10/11 (Relocated); 8/10/13 reincorporated

everything emphasized

honor to honor due

> what has God laid upon children ?

> respect old face

--

maybe not a good example

Future Plans

At some point I need to capitalize on the fact that Peter urges the wife to suffer in the same way as slaves endure injustice.

Eph

Notice these things: Order, Profound, Amazing Submission, Martyr-level Love and protection

Coming of Age – 1/29/10 email response to Jim II:

I am also finally replying to your email about “Cell phone contact”

With a Daughter – If not married off, I would do what seemed to be in her best interest, which would generally mean that no one dangerous talks to her, and if necessary, I would monitor, restrict, or even deny communication with anyone who would attempt to turn her hart away from her father. Women are not designed to defend themselves, but they are made to come under the protection of men. Jesus can help isolated believing women, but this is the exception where supernatural help is strongly needed. And it is not right to put God to the test in this area when He has not seen fit to lay it upon a person in His (all wise) providence.

With Sons – If they are older than 12 I would let them and even charge them to be men who ultimately are solely responsible for managing their own lives. If they remained faithful to me and wanted to continue in what I preached I would give them charges according to truth, as a father also of their faith as Abraham was to his sons (also see Rom_4:12-17 etc.), but this has to be their decision to commit to it, if they would continue in my faith after they passed the age of 12.

I hope it would help you to look at this brief summary of children that I wrote:

http://www.trueconnection.org/BibleStudies/Family_Commands.html#Children

And I even began a new point in light of your question:

http://www.trueconnection.org/BibleStudies/Family_Commands.html#ComingofAge

hope this helps

Man clinging to a woman, as a MAN

The more voluntarily subjected a wife is to her husband, the more deeply she is welded to his insides before he can even help it. If you can jump right in to subjection, you will jump right into his heart before he realizes or thinks to open the door.

- I like persecuted writer  - D’s attitude: He can’t stay me at me for too long

If punishment were still permitted:

For godliness…

- it would explain a lot of things

- just having your face facing that direction, would not make him love you less, but profoundly and deeply more (why? subjection)

- should a woman now who is not punished stand confidently if a man raises his hand, when God expected Egypt to react?

Isa_19:16 Brenton  But in that day the Egyptians shall be as women, in fear and in trembling because of the hand of the Lord of hosts…

- it would more closely reflect Christ and the church

- it would have to be that it would continue (I think) in the exact same sense as it has with children continuing to be punished, because otherwise: a “child is not different at all from a slave” – and we don’t seem to be allowed to beat them… (unless beating without threatening? I think not. God threatens)

- younger women were married to older men to have more of that kind of relationship

- it would not be so difficult in a godly set up, but the problem comes BIG time in an ungodly one

> either way: “WITHOUT fear or amazement”

-WHY?  If a child crumbles under fear, then he will also compromise under fear – this is not an option for a woman of God who must keep truth to her own heart

-what is bad is if a woman did not care if it was scriptural or not, but sought out someone who did not believe it for the sake of “preference” and “safety”

-either way a woman should still be subjected under a “crewel master,” but I her life I in danger, flee.

How the Rape “Need” is Defeated

This is profound:

- subjection to punishment would undercut and replace the perversion that drives a man to rape

Practically speaking:

- A man would never think to rape anyone if he had the need met of a fully subjected wife who would even take punishment. That would chase away any such thought.

-You have undercut any room the devil may use in a man to drive him to this

But you say: only perverts have that type of mindset

- but you don’t understand!

- I’ve seen various men of extremely different dispositions who have no desire to hurt anyone being driven by this same need and torment that craves rape. I’ve wondered for years… how is that met in the right way?

The BIG problem is:

- Rap is like murder

- To a woman it is a monster, to men it is driven out of horrible death of unmet possession

- Men are not at all innocent, but this is the direction it comes out of

- Without justifying any sin, still, often you must understand it to oppose and defeat it

- Those who rape are fully darkened so that they will murder another to console what is tormentingly missing, (like the murderer of those school girls in PA who had previously lost his daughter).

- those who do cannot do it without being overrun with demonic torment and chains. Comparable to Judas who in torment and possession betrayed Jesus and then ran off a cliff.

- Men don’t always realize it: they don’t let themselves believe it is a monster, especially if she gives even a little hint of leeway

- even some men who abhor it, have this very same torment that could potentially drive them to it

- so don’t think ‘he would never want to hurt me’ - because that is not how he thinks of it

- He is living in an immoral culture that is denying the virtue of women, so how is it wrong to him if he defiles a person’s body when cleanness is not what either of them is seeking?

- in the same way those who are violated, themselves, always get trapped in bad relationships (homosexuals, or men who are scoundrels, and women who are violated usually end up with dishonest uncaring men)

- so also men, through torment, are driven toward this very thing toward others that would kill a woman

- fist they need to hear loud and clear: YOU ARE MURDERING, but once they have halted we need to do some serious work to remove that nature

- Rape is not just a “don’t be a pervert” problem. Some people who you think are normal have this type of problem. The need must be addressed in the right way to secure the passion from ever bursting out in the disaster of rape.

- the relationships in this culture are not giving a solution to any of these problems.

- Profound subjection, profoundly fixes, profound problems and produces profoundly unexpected and beautiful results.

But some may feel: “I don’t just want to be an answer to a need” but

- how would it turn a man to love a woman if she fit so perfectly in his life?

- now she would be welcomed into his heart and life

Story:

I know a man in family who at first violated a woman and used to vehemently oppose me, but then got a wife who was ridiculously subjected to him: He eventually turned and is completely ashamed and broken over what he did.

I wonder

How would Jesus handle disciplining children?

How would He handle “ruling His own house” (on earth)

Difficulty on guy side of things is how to rule in cretin cases... yet the Bible absolutely demands this...????

I know how to rule bad children, but not bad wives...

what if you were married to unsaved wife? How can you rule? Even more: how would you "punish"?

Difference between church and Prostitute
-Arrows aimed at face

-punish them to their face to destroy them

But on the other hand Miriam:

if a father spit in her face, unclean for certain days

Punishment purifies and removes cancer

"so that all of the churches will know... that I am he who searches"

abuse darkens with evil hopelessness

> It does make a man a man

if it works right this is what it does...

The more a righteous man can be a man (the way things ought to be) the more he is going to be propelled in to cleaving hard fast to his wife in love. The more the bond is accessed the stonger it fortifies in His emotions. When things work right it welds a man to a woman... the way a woman has always wanted... she wants to get into his world, but for some reason he clams up and does not want her in... women feel violated physically when a man does not crave to love her, and men clam up emotionally when she does not crave to be subject to him.

- spiritually a man is caused to have less male hormons physically

- may be a partial reason why so many men don't love their wives. If she is a nag... he does not want to talk to her. Punishment may fix this, but abuse only worsens it! She only nags him more, and he can only abuse her for it.

...But he can be forced to want to open up to a wife who is extreemly subjected to him... this wins him over "without a word" and prays Himself open with his own crow-bar, so woman can be cherished to be a part of his life. If you are self-driven, demanding, particular, pushing him to be a certin way, having requirements, he will naturally close off his heart and feel strange to have you wanting to come in!

But don't worry... when he is old he will wimp out.

DON'T SETTLE FOR WIMPING OUT!

Older men are sometimes hyped up on getting men to concede:

- you will learn one day that you cannot force a woman to go your way (which would be true if she is rebellious, but not true in general, nor is this the way it ought to be)

- Men and women get to a point that they joke about how in control "she" is

- they laugh it off

- If you make jokes about it, then you are not willing to take seriously enough to change. (Dad's about moms rebellion, mothers who joke about daughter's attitude)

-Don’t laugh off anything you really want to see changed

- Male smashing seems ok when the women are moderate

-many compromised men-smashers get compromised that way after their man-ness has already been established with their wife

- they are happy they found a middle ground by wimping out that they can both concede to: he does not get honor, but she get’s his trust: but it is a week and shallow one without welling

The only way you will get in is f he stops being a man and your relationship conceeds to wimpyness, and your bond is no proper, but is shallow, counterfitted, and defeted even when you both conceed to this way and practice.

examples:

- a pastor: 'lacking male hormones'

- a youth pastor: His wife was there to lead; he was there to slump down into the pew.

- church leader, with progressive leading wife. He onors her and goes along with her, but it is not a feeling of being sealed and welded.

What do you think it does for you if he is not a real man (answer: ‘lacking hormones’)? How well do you think he will cling to you in right love if he compromises the mal-ish way God intended and designed him to be?

This is a real problem when it comes to socks on the fan blade, but...

We pray that a man will rise up to do his job, but if a wife beats him down to it, you will create a monster:

- DivRem preacher: 'not kill ut crucify man'

The more subjected a wife is the more a husband is welded to her in love.

> It does show an absolute rule

> It does show an extremely proper attitude that Scripture demands

>> But what about 'without any fear of amazement...'

Submission and Abuse

A wife is greater than a slave, but even concerning slaves God says:

Eph_6:9 WEB  You masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with him.

>> Quoted 3 times herein (esp. v 9)

Col_3:25 WEB  But he who does wrong will receive again for the wrong that he has done, and there is no partiality.

How much more does this apply to a wife? The husband is to be the master of the wife, and this is taught in many places including 1 Pet_3:6 using “lord” [κυριον (kúrion)] which to us is comparable to “Sir” or “Master.”

In 1Ti_3:4-5 (quoted above) a husband who qualifies for leadership must be “ruling”

We can also mention many others including Deu_24:1 and Jer_3:14 where the word for “married” comes from the word “baal” or “master.” So becoming a woman’s husband means becoming her “Master.” This does not however mean that he has a right to abuse his wife (Eph_6:9; 1Pe_3:6-7), but a responsibility to protect her, and give his life for her best interests and greatest benefit at all times (Eph_5:22-33).

God is always wrathful towards people who oppress, and is specifically set against husbands who “deal treacherously” and “violently” with their wives. In Malachi chapter two they found no repentance even though they were crying at the altar because they had not made things right after their horrible treatment of their wives.

-------

I was thinking about what I said about “beating slaves” in the OT and how that was not the same in the New Covenant:

Pro_29:19 WEB  A servant can't be corrected by words. Though he understands, yet he will not respond.

And we might compare this with another verse:

Pro_26:3 WEB  A whip for the horse, A bridle for the donkey, And a rod for the back of fools!

But under the New Covenant there seems to be a different attitude:

Eph_6:5-9 WEB  Servants, be obedient to those who according to the flesh are your masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as to Christ;  6  not in the way of service only when eyes are on you, as men-pleasers; but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;  7  with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men;  8  knowing that whatever good thing each one does, he will receive the same again from the Lord, whether he is bound or free.  9  You masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with him.

>> Quoted 3 times herein (esp. v 9)

--

1Pe_3:1-7 EMTV  Wives, likewise, subject yourselves to your own husbands…  2  when they observe your chaste conduct with fear…  6  as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, of whom you became children, when you do good and are not afraid of any terror. 

> Reverence husbands fearing God, not because they fear the husband directly, but through fearing God they reverence their husbands. Not independently, but in subjection.

--

This charge to “give up threatening” seems to be based on the same principal as no longer fighting, because he says specifically, “he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven…” Just as Jesus says:

Joh_18:36 WEB  …"My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight, that I wouldn't be delivered to the Jews. But now my kingdom is not from here."

The geographical change in the location of God’s “kingdom” from the Holy Land to Heaven has something directly to do with the change of the way we fight:

2Co_10:4 KJV  (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

I also said that this treatment of slaves was similar for wives. But as I was thinking about it I also considered that that statement could have been misunderstood.

I would not want anyone to think that abuse has ever, or will ever, be condoned by the Bible. God is always wrathful towards people who oppress, and is specifically set against husbands who “deal treacherously” and “violently” with their wives. In Mal 2 they found no repentance even though they were crying at the altar because they had not made things right after their horrible treatment of their wives.

Mal_2:13-17 KJ2000  And this have you done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, because he regards not the offering any more, or receives it with good will at your hand.  14  Yet you say, Why? Because the LORD has been witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously: yet is she your companion, and the wife of your covenant.  15  And did not he make them one? Yet had he the remnant of the spirit. And why one? That he might seek a godly offspring. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.  16  For the LORD, the God of Israel, says that he hates putting away [i.e. divorce]: For one covers violence with his garment, says the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that you deal not treacherously.  17  You have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet you say, How have we wearied him? When you say, Every one that does evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delights in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?

Having seen enough abuse in relationships, I would say that my experience agrees with the Bible that no one who practices abuse has any chance of going to Heaven unless they seriously repent.

I get deeply mad about abuse.

That having been said, strangely enough, it looks like God not only makes a distinction between abuse and punishment with children, but during the time of the Old Covenant, it looks like He did the same thing for wives and servants. He indicates this in passing by comparing His (just) punishment of the nations with a husband’s treatment of his wife:

Isa_19:16 KJV  In that day shall Egypt be like unto women: and it shall be afraid and fear because of the shaking of the hand of the LORD of hosts, which he shaketh over it.

The question here is not “if” husbands disciplined (or even abused) their wives. But the question is “how is it that God is comparing His actions to anything like this”? But still this is a theme throughout Isaiah, especially toward Israel:

Isa_5:25; Isa_9:12; Isa_9:17-21; Isa_10:4; Isa_14:26-27; Isa_23:11;

Isa_9:13, 17 WEB  Yet the people have not turned to him who struck them, neither have they sought Yahweh of Hosts.  17  …For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

Isa_14:26-27 KJV  This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.  27  For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?

Isa_23:11 WEB  He has stretched out his hand over the sea, he has shaken the kingdoms…

Some Summary

So what I gather from the Bible is that abuse has always been eternally sinful, but there was a time (i.e. during the Old Testament) that punishment extended beyond children. In the New Covenant, there seems to be virtually no other punishment than children given for believers to enforce. (A small exception would be Jesus driving out the money changers, which is hard to apply today without the same temple).

--

He specifically reaffirms the punishment of children for the new covenant by saying:

Heb_12:5-13 WEB  and you have forgotten the exhortation which reasons with you as with children, "My son, don't take lightly the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when you are reproved by him;  6  For whom the Lord loves, he chastens, And scourges every son whom he receives."  7  It is for discipline that you endure. God deals with you as with children, for what son is there whom his father doesn't discipline?  8  But if you are without discipline, whereof all have been made partakers, then are you illegitimate, and not children.  9  Furthermore, we had the fathers of our flesh to chasten us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much rather be in subjection to the Father of spirits, and live?  10  For they indeed, for a few days, punished us as seemed good to them; but he for our profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness.  11  All chastening seems for the present to be not joyous but grievous; yet afterward it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been exercised thereby.  12  Therefore, lift up the hands that hang down and the feeble knees,  13  and make straight paths for your feet, that that which is lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed.

He shows that even among the christian community there was the punishment of children when He says:

“ 6  …for what son is there whom his father doesn't discipline?... 9  Furthermore, we had the fathers of our flesh to chasten us, and we paid them respect.”

- They did not even know a son among them that did not get punished, even so far as “chastening.”

--

For husbands and wives, this is unexpected and sobering.  Obviously there are a lot of things to be thankful about the New Covenant, and this is probably one that you would not have thought of before, unless it was brought to your attention. At the same time the Old Covenant still speaks to “social justice” (Rom_1:32) and the best thing to learn might be a sense of adjustment to our default assumptions about a woman’s role.

Under a covenant like ours “threatening” is not an option for husbands as it was in the Old one. How then ought a woman to act under the New Covenant?  Should she be less reverent now that physical repercussions are prohibited, or should there be all the more response of voluntarily reverence?

We said that this was comparable to the change in “slave discipline,” and this is taught in many places including 1Pe_3:6 using “lord” [κυριον (kúrion)] which to us is comparable to “Sir” or “master.” We also mentioned Deu_24:1 and Jer_3:14 the word for “married” comes from the word “baal” or “master”:

H1166 בּעל bâal baw-al'

A primitive root; to be master; hence (as denominative from H1167) to marry: - Beulah have dominion (over), be husband, marry (-ried, X wife).

So the Biblical/ Hebrew concept of marriage was “becoming master of” a wife, and God is not ignorant of this because He uses some interesting plays on words with this when talking to Israel about His marriage to them.

So the change in the treatment of slaves would imply the same change in the treatment of wives, and it says that the change should produce eagerness and “sincerity”:

Eph_6:5-9 WEB  Servants, be obedient to those who according to the flesh are your masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as to Christ;  6  not in the way of service only when eyes are on you, as men-pleasers; but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;  7  with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men;

>> Quoted 3 times herein (esp. v 9)

This is exactly what we already read about wives in 1Peter 3 last night.

I’m sure that there are other important things to get out of this, but this is a place to start.

I hope all of this clarifies some things.

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Abuse vs. punishment

Masters, give up thretening

So does this also mean that they should give up punishing their children?

NO: even among the church he says,

What father 'among you' (including christian ones) does not punish the son 'in whom he delights?'

but does punishment extend beyond children?

Yes --

Jesus made a whip a drove them out of the temple

Jesus not only physically punished people other than his children, He punished people He was not even related to because it pertained to His realm of authority as God's son "over His own house" so to speak.

But the scribes said, "who gave you this authority?" this was forign to them even more so since people were newly being made the children of God by faith in Jesus.

So we see that punishment certinly extends beyond one's own children, and in this case, the only principal we can know of is that it extended to others on the basis of it being under the realm of His authority. He punished even His enemies.

But in most cases, we face our enemies outside of our realm of authority, such as when they strike us on the cheeck. "Your bodies are not your own. You were baught at a price..." therefor we trust and wait for God to avenge the abuse of His property under His authority, since He also owns us all by right of creaion.

So we see that under the new testament we are to continue punishing our children for their good, just as it was emplemented in the Old Covenant. We also see that punishment extends beyond our children to the realm of our authority, because of Jesus in the temple.

Does this yet mean that we don't punish servants or slaves, when it says, "A child is no different than a slave."

Punishment is different than wrath: Wrath means, "You are not my child," while punishment can even mean, "You are the son in whom i delight." We are to have wrath on no one because God says, "Vengence is Mine."

We are only to punish those in our realm of authority, which means no one on this earth, because Jesus says, "If my kingdom were of this world my servants would fight." My realm of kingship is in another place so I turn the other cheack while in my pilgramage here.

And John the Baptist said, "Do violence to no man," so again violence is for another persons harm, but punishment is for their good.

Are we still alowed to kill animals like David did? Yes, as Paul killed the snake, and we may even eat them!

Biblical Beaver

Bible Verses for the Biblical Family

Josiahs Scott

1/9/04; 10/21/07; 3/4/17 (recompiled)

Eph 5:22-33 EMTV  Wives, subject yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord,  23  because the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.  24  But just as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives be to their own husbands in everything.  25  Husbands, love your own wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,  26  in order that He might sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing of water by the word,  27  that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and blameless.  28  So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he that loves his own wife loves himself.  29  For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as also the Lord does the church.  30  For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.  31  "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."  32  This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and to the church.  33  Nevertheless you also individually, let each one love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respect her husband.

Eph 6:1-4 EMTV  Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.  2  "Honor your father and mother," which is the first commandment with a promise:  3  "that it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."  4  And fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and admonition of the Lord… 12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual forces of evil in the heavenlies.

Col 3:16-21 WEB  Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly; in all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your heart to the Lord.  17  Whatever you do, in word or in deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father, through him.  18  Wives, be in subjection to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.  19  Husbands, love your wives, and don't be bitter against them.  20  Children, obey your parents in all things, for this pleases the Lord.  21  Fathers, don't provoke your children, so that they won't be discouraged.

Pastor: 1Ti 3:4-5 EMTV  one ruling his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence;  5  (for if one does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);

Deacons: 1Ti 3:11-12 EMTV  Likewise their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.  12  Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children well, and their own houses.

Tit 2:4-5 EMTV  so that they may urge the young women to be lovers of their husbands, lovers of their children,  5  temperate, pure, homemakers, good, submitting to their own husbands, lest the word of God be blasphemed.

1Pe 3:1-7 EMTV  Wives, likewise, subject yourselves to your own husbands, so that even if some are disobedient to the word, that by the conduct of their wives, without a word, they shall be gained for Christ,  2  when they observe your chaste conduct with fear.  3  Of whom let it not be the outward adorning of braiding of hair, and wearing of gold, or of putting on of fine clothes,  4  rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible attitude of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious before God.  5  For thus formerly, the holy women who hoped on God also adorned themselves, subjecting themselves to their own husbands,  6  as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, of whom you became children, when you do good and are not afraid of any terror.  7  Husbands, likewise, live together according to knowledge as with a weaker vessel, with the wife, showing her honor as also a fellow heir of the grace of life, in order that your prayers may not be hindered.

Submission and Abuse

A wife is greater than a slave, but even concerning a slave God says:

Eph 6:9 WEB  You masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with him.

How much more does this apply to a wife? The husband is to be the master of the wife, and this is taught in many places including 1 Pet 3:6 using “lord” [κυριον (kúrion)] which to us is comparable to “Sir” or “master.” We also mentioned Deu 24:1 and Jer 3:14 the word for “married” comes from the word “ba‛al” or “master.” This does not however mean that he has a right to abuse his wife (Eph 6:9; 1Pe 3:7), but a responsibility to protect her, and give his life for her best interests and greatest benefit (Eph 5:22-33).

God is always wrathful towards people who oppress, and is specifically set against husbands who “deal treacherously” and “violently” with their wives. In Mal 2 they found no repentance even though they were crying at the altar because they had not made things right after their horrible treatment of their wives.

Children

Exo 20:12 WEB  "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which Yahweh your God gives you.

Lev 19:3 WEB  "'Each one of you shall respect his mother and his father.

Pro 15:5 MKJV  A fool despises his father's instruction, but he who listens to correction is wise.

Pro 23:22 WEB  Listen to your father who gave you life, And don't despise your mother when she is old.

Pro 30:17 WEB  The eye that mocks at his father, And scorns obedience to his mother: The ravens of the valley shall pick it out, The young eagles shall eat it.

Pro 1:8 WEB  My son, listen to your father's instruction, And don't forsake your mother's teaching:


Eventual addition:

I was thinking about what I said about “beating slaves” in the OT and how that was not the same in the New Covenant:

Pro 29:19 WEB  A servant can't be corrected by words. Though he understands, yet he will not respond.

And we might compare this with another verse:

Pro 26:3 WEB  A whip for the horse, A bridle for the donkey, And a rod for the back of fools!

But under the New Covenant there seems to be a different attitude:

Eph 6:5-9 WEB  Servants, be obedient to those who according to the flesh are your masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as to Christ;  6  not in the way of service only when eyes are on you, as men-pleasers; but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;  7  with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men;  8  knowing that whatever good thing each one does, he will receive the same again from the Lord, whether he is bound or free.  9  You masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with him.

This charge to “give up threatening” seems to be based on the same principal as no longer fighting, because he says specifically, “he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven…” Just as Jesus says:

Joh 18:36 WEB  …"My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight, that I wouldn't be delivered to the Jews. But now my kingdom is not from here."

The geographical change in the location of God’s “kingdom” from the Holy Land to Heaven has something directly to do with the change of the way we fight:

2Co 10:4 KJV  (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

I also said that this treatment of slaves was similar for wives. But as I was thinking about it I also considered that that statement could have been misunderstood.

I would not want anyone to think that abuse has ever, or will ever, be condoned by the Bible. God is always wrathful towards people who oppress, and is specifically set against husbands who “deal treacherously” and “violently” with their wives. In Mal 2 they found no repentance even though they were crying at the altar because they had not made things right after their horrible treatment of their wives.

Mal 2:13-17 KJ2000  And this have you done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, because he regards not the offering any more, or receives it with good will at your hand.  14  Yet you say, Why? Because the LORD has been witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously: yet is she your companion, and the wife of your covenant.  15  And did not he make them one? Yet had he the remnant of the spirit. And why one? That he might seek a godly offspring. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.  16  For the LORD, the God of Israel, says that he hates putting away [i.e. divorce]: For one covers violence with his garment, says the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that you deal not treacherously.  17  You have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet you say, How have we wearied him? When you say, Every one that does evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delights in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?

Having seen enough abuse in relationships, I would say that my experience agrees with the Bible that no one who practices abuse has any chance of going to Heaven unless they seriously repent.

I get deeply mad about abuse.

That having been said, strangely enough, it looks like God not only makes a distinction between abuse and punishment with children, but during the time of the Old Covenant, it looks like He did the same thing for wives and servants. He indicates this in passing by comparing His (just) punishment of the nations with a husband’s treatment of his wife:

Isa 19:16 KJV  In that day shall Egypt be like unto women: and it shall be afraid and fear because of the shaking of the hand of the LORD of hosts, which he shaketh over it.

The question here is not “if” husbands disciplined (or even abused) their wives. But the question is “how is it that God is comparing His actions to anything like this”? But still this is a theme throughout Isaiah, especially toward Israel:

Isa_5:25; Isa_9:12; Isa_9:17-21; Isa_10:4; Isa_14:26-27; Isa_23:11;

Isa 9:13, 17 WEB  Yet the people have not turned to him who struck them, neither have they sought Yahweh of Hosts.  17  …For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

Isa 14:26-27 KJV  This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.  27  For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?

Isa 23:11 WEB  He has stretched out his hand over the sea, he has shaken the kingdoms…

Some Summary

So what I gather from the Bible is that abuse has always been eternally sinful, but there was a time (i.e. during the Old Testament) that punishment extended beyond children. In the New Covenant, there seems to be virtually no other punishment than children given for believers to enforce. (A small exception would be Jesus driving out the money changers, which is hard to apply today without the same temple).

For husbands and wives, this is unexpected and sobering.  Obviously there are a lot of things to be thankful about the New Covenant, and this is probably one that you would not have thought of before, unless it was brought to your attention. At the same time the Old Covenant still speaks to “social justice” (Rom 1:32) and the best thing to learn might be a sense of adjustment to our default assumptions about a woman’s role.

Under a covenant like ours “threatening” is not an option for husbands as it was in the Old one. How then ought a woman to act under the New Covenant?  Should she be less reverent now that physical repercussions are prohibited, or should there be all the more response of voluntarily reverence?

We said that this was comparable to the change in “slave discipline,” and this is taught in many places including 1 Pet 3:6 using “lord” [κυριον (kúrion)] which to us is comparable to “Sir” or “master.” We also mentioned Deu 24:1 and Jer 3:14 the word for “married” comes from the word “ba‛al” or “master”:

H1166 בּעל bâ‛al baw-al'

A primitive root; to be master; hence (as denominative from H1167) to marry: - Beulah have dominion (over), be husband, marry (-ried, X wife).

So the Biblical/ Hebrew concept of marriage was “becoming master of” a wife, and God is not ignorant of this because He uses some interesting plays on words with this when talking to Israel about His marriage to them.

So the change in the treatment of slaves would imply the same change in the treatment of wives, and it says that the change should produce eagerness and sincerity:

Eph 6:5-9 WEB  Servants, be obedient to those who according to the flesh are your masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as to Christ;  6  not in the way of service only when eyes are on you, as men-pleasers; but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;  7  with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men;

This is exactly what we already read about wives in 1Peter 3 last night.

I’m sure that there are other important things to get out of this, but this is a place to start.

I hope all of this clarifies some things.